It seems like everything there is a photography industry mini-event someone asks my opinion. I wasn’t going to respond to this one until I saw some of the other responses from my colleagues. You know the drill – if you haven’t read the “craigslist-y’all-photographers-are-wack” post have at it and join me back for some commentary (totally archived by petapixel.com -many thanks):
Attn: Wedding Photographers 
(Puget Sound)
OK, this client is mad about wedding photography prices. And a slew of my colleagues have taken to the interwebs to state their case, defend their prices, explain their expenses and generally hunker down to commiserate about how this client just doesn’t get it. Guess what?
I THINK SHE IS COMPLETELY FUCKING RIGHT.
Did you feel that when I got all controversial in your face!?!?!?* Yeah, I think she sort of has a point. I grew up lower-middle to middle class. $3000 is a lot of money for most of us. So I totally get where she is coming from. And I know what you dear listeners are saying, “this isn’t my client!!!” Yeah, you’re probably right. For instance, she is looking for a:
“decently priced, exceptional, amazingly talented, fun photographer”
Sure, she wants everything to be amazing except the price. Probably going to be disappointed, right?
So on this point I’m totally with you naysayers. But my problem isn’t with her attitude, my problem is with photographers manically posting their budgets and cost breakouts to prove a point.
Your expenses do not justify your price. Say it with once more with feeling brothers and sisters – YOUR EXPENSES DO NOT JUSTIFY YOUR PRICE. It doesn’t matter to the client how much it costs to run your business or your life. That in and of itself does not tell the client why your product is worth what you are asking for it. Covering the expenses is your problem, not theirs.
Our problem in this case is not one of “education” as so many photographers put it. Think of it this way, how often do you want someone who is in direct opposition to you to “educate” you? Aren’t you apt to feel as if they are talking down to you, or perhaps mounting that high horse to speak as some sort of self-appointed authority? She doesn’t need to understand the back-end of how a photography business pays the bills.
The client needs to see the value. That’s OUR problem not HERS. If she doesn’t see the value she probably isn’t going to hire an established pro, but for some reason she thinks she deserves to. This is our fault as an industry. Our fault for devaluing so many aspects of what we offer that it looks like we’re trying to ripoff the client when we charge barely appropriately.
For something to be worth $3000 or more it needs to be valuable to the client. That isn’t chump change to the majority of the people we are going to be working with. I’m going to be honest, I want (significantly) more than $3K to photograph a wedding. For that to happen I have to provide that kind of value to the client’s life. I don’t hand them my general expenses itemized out when I slide the price list across the table. I actually have to, you know, BE valuable.
Look, on the one hand I’m sort of thrilled that some photographers have a handle on their expenses and general finances. That’s a good sign. But we have to go beyond what we need to make and provide compelling value to someone’s life in order to actually earn what we need. But what we need does not justify what we charge. What we mean just might. What does it mean to work with us? What does it say about a client to hang our work on their walls? What can we help make true about a client’s wedding or family or children or whatever by virtue of our work making it evident and true?
Photographers need to stop preaching to the choir and complaining in closed circles about how clients just don’t understand. They need to get out there and make them believe. If the client doesn’t get it that’s our fault first and foremost. The client isn’t responsible to cover our expenses, it is our responsibility to be valuable enough to cover them.
Then again, I could be wrong – what do you think?
- trr
P.S. – absolutely no disrespect intended to those who I linked to. They’re stating their opinion just like me. My opinion is no better or worse. Just trying to add my own perspective to the discussion.
* as a side note, the controversy statement was for my friend Laura Romero, uber-portrait-lifestyle-photographer/style maven who keeps encouraging me to take off the brakes and be even more honest and blunt. As such, it was basically a public joke for one person, which is really the best kind of joke ever.
Todd, towards the end of your post, I was imagining an entire ARMY of photographers, all across the globe, spreading info about their value, and elevating the entire industry’s perceived value.
But then I thought….yes, communicating value is the best way to go….but….what if it became public knowledge of all the ‘bits and pieces’ that go into a photography business…I imagine (and this is probably not reality, lol)…what if the average joe on the street understood that in a $3k wedding, the photographer pays taxes, has insurance policies, equip purchases/maintenance, marketing costs, printing costs, hardware, blah blah blah. What if the average person KNEW that all these things were in play?
So I was all set to disagree with you a little bit…………
But then I realized…communicating costs is a losing battle. Even if John Doe understood (before he even contacted me) that I had to pay for that laundry list of things, it still wouldn’t matter. If the client becomes TOO educated on my costs, he might want to challenge why I pay X for a studio, or Y for an accountant, and OH MY GOD, I never want to justify to a client why I chose Accountant So-and-So for MY business. So now I am back on board, and thinking that I wouldn’t want to cloud the conversation with all the nuances of my business. I think that I would try to communicate value…for example, I don’t want to be choosing a landscaper, and critiquing his choice of tool suppliers, or how much he pays for liability insurance, haha.
I think if a client is challenging your price, they’ve already made some decision in their head about your value. It’s then time to change their mind, but they already have an opinion regarding your value. For example, if they knew Annie Leibovitz was going to photograph their wedding for $3k, they probably wouldn’t flinch. So why do they have a problem with ME doing it for that amount? Apparently a value disconnect.
I don’t have to deal with the ‘communicating value’ as much as some, because I publish my starting prices. So the potential client is able to make some decisions in their head regarding Price vs. Value, and if they are contacting me, usually it’s a very good sign that I communicated it well. Now I may be losing some clients though, because they’re not being given the opportunity for me to ‘sell them’ on my value prior to showing them a price. But anyways, I am constantly learning on here (and other places) about communicating value, and I think I make small refinements all the time, though I still am working on a Eureka! moment.
Thanks for posting!
Thanks for the comment, Brian. I just wanted photographers to think a bit about what was really relevant and compelling to the market before they aired their financial dirty laundry.
I’m not necessarily sure that we’ve cracked the issue that posting prices communicates value necessarily, but you’re on the right track.
- todd
If I was a bride looking at photographers and read a post where the person laid out their expenses as justification for their cost, it would just be further reason for me to book the lower priced person who does decent work. After all…obviously their expenses are much lower than the $3k person, and I don’t want to feel like I am just paying this other person’s overhead.
THANK YOU!
Just quickly Todd, I definitely don’t believe pricing communicates value. I think it’s 1/2 the equation for many persons’ decision to book you or not. I think that in their head, they weigh the quality of what you provide (your value to them), against your pricing, to make their decision. Also, I bounce from websites that don’t publish pricing…it feels manipulative to me. Plus, I believe that published pricing can act as a filter that benefits me (I believe it has downsides, too, but I think it’s a ‘net’ win for most).
Todd, Well all I can say is that I found this post to be completely and utterly refreshing! I have spent a good portion of last week/weekend avoiding facebook altogether due to the fact that my news feed was being swallowed whole by photographer’s responses to the craigslist bride. I could not pinpoint for the life of me why it was that I was so unhinged by the responses to her and I am so grateful that you said it so clearly and accurately (essentially sticking a pin in it for me and allowing me to promptly return to facebook). I 100% agree with your opinion and happily share in it. Now can you tell us the secret, preferably in one sentance, to the ever constant challenge of ‘communicating your value?’
The original blog post really got under my skin. When it started going viral, it got linked on a local wedding photog group I belong to on facebook, and the first couple comments were people figuratively high-fiving the photographer that “stood up for herself”. Then I posted and I think I somewhat killed the thread. My comment was pretty long, but here’s a snippet:
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After thinking about this further, I think there are a couple points to take away:
- Justifying prices makes you look weak. If you find yourself apologizing for them, chances are it’s because you don’t feel confident. That’s either a perception hurdle you need to get over, or it’s time to hit the books and improve your craft.
I would also clarify what I said earlier, it’s not just your portfolio that shows value, it’s the whole package – your level of experience and the experience you give clients – and your ability to communicate that.
There’s also something to be said for brides that just want a photographer because it’s expected, but aren’t really looking for a mind-blowing experience. They just want some photos of their wedding and will call it a day. Not every bride is obsessively reading Style Me Pretty 18 hours a day while working their fingers to the bone tying jute bows around vintage mason jars. The wedding industry is kind of wack, and we as photographers are as guilty as the brides in our perceptions of what is expected. There’s not that many blogs/magazines/tv shows geared towards detail-free, small budget, no frills weddings. We aren’t going to be the answer to every bride’s prayers. That is ok.
- Secondly, some brides really can’t tell the difference between good work and bad. And there’s nothing wrong with that either. So perhaps your portfolio is the least important part of communicating your value. I have been experimenting lately in my consults. I came up with a list of questions specifically geared towards figuring out what clients like or dislike about photography. I don’t grill them, but I do gently push them to be clear and specific. What I’ve found out so far is that overwhelmingly, brides are looking at content and not technical merit.
Not one has mentioned “a lack of details in shadows” or blown out dresses, lack of contrast, uneven horizon lines, or bad color balance as things they don’t like. Photographers see that stuff, most consumers do not. (Or all they can articulate is a feeling.) All the answers I’ve gotten so far have to do with content and the amount of posing. There has to be something else that communicates value.
The one exception is that some (not all, but maybe 30%) notice the post production effects of actions/LR presets and like a certain look. Some see the toning, but fail to notice significant flaws in an image. They see higher end studios showing a toned image, and then they find someone priced at 2k that’s slapping the same action on a far less compelling image and they don’t see the difference.
Yes, you put a great photo next to a terrible one and no bride will have trouble telling you which one is better, but they will never get that opportunity with their own wedding photos. At the end of the day, emotion wins out. (The exception being the rare nightmare cases that end up on the news where the photographer screws up so massively that the bride feels victimized.)
As for the bride who actually can see the difference in good work and mediocre work, one of the following scenes will play out:
-They will shop around and realize they need to invest $XXXX and will re-work their budget. How many times has someone booked you after saying they couldn’t afford you?
-They will shop around until they find a talented newbie or someone underpriced who can give them what they want.
-They will shop around until they find a cheaper studio, that’s churning out poor quality work stylized similar to higher end studio.
-In semi-denial, they will book a cheaper photographer expecting *their wedding* to somehow look better than all the previous work the studio has done and will either end up mildly disappointed or extremely disappointed.
In most of these scenarios, the bride keeps shopping. I don’t think many get lectured by a photographer and have an epiphany and pull out the checkbook. It’s just not worth wasting our breath trying to “educate” those brides. We only come off looking uncertain, timid, pompous, or condescending. Is that help to any of us in the long run?
Opps, I put my original facebook comment in brackets, and they got cut out. Sorry, I realize I already posted a novel, but this is what was supposed to be at the beginning:
_ _ _ _ _ _
Brides don’t really give a crap about our expenses. I just don’t see the point in trying to “educate” them. They don’t appreciate it, and we look like an industry of whiners. The quality of the work should be enough to illustrate why someone is expensive, and if the bride has no taste in photography, honestly, she will probably be serviced equally well by some budget photog, because she can’t tell the difference anyway. It’s not like she will have anything amazing to compare her average-to-crappy images to.
I can’t think of any other industry that when people complain about prices, the vendors come back apologetically and start informing them of their overhead and how unprofitable they really are. And if someone did, my overall feeling would be “I don’t care.” People either value photography or they don’t. Lecturing them about it isn’t going to change their perception.
For most products/services, if you don’t see the value in it, you don’t buy it. But people getting married consider it sacrilegious to not hire a photographer. That is the only reason why there are posts complaining about how expensive it is. Those people don’t represent most of our clients.
Likewise, telling people they get what they pay for just makes us sound pompous. A better thought is that the most expensive photographer is the one that comes to your wedding and takes lousy pictures. Doesn’t matter if they cost $5,000 or $500 – you overpaid
Todd,
Appreciate the perspective you give, as always. I think you are spot on with this one. I couldn’t help but cringe every time I saw another photographer going to war over their pricing. All I kept thinking is – she doesn’t care! And neither do the rest of your clients, as you said.
And i think that even with a perfect value proposition, there will always be people who just don’t get it, and that’s ok. I don’t need to go around to everyone who doesn’t book me trying to explain my costs so that they will reconsider. Uhh, not gonna work.
Obviously, perfecting that proposition is key, and I’m definitely still working on that.
I sent her an email response and tried to be relatively respectful.
I did break down expenses for her but my point wasn’t so much to justify value as to explain that in fact, no, we are not raking it in.
Value is a whole different story, however. The funny thing to me is that she is obviously complaining because she is frustrated that she can tell the difference between a 3k photographer and a 1k photographer and she doesn’t understand why more talent means more money. That’s a no-win argument, really.
As with many things I think that at least ONE of the truths lies in the middle. I agree with you that it can’t be a cost-justification game ALONE, but at the same time I don’t necessarily think that it’s a horrible thing if people (not necessarily that particular bride, but other people who might end up reading some of this stuff) get a better grasp on the MINIMUM PRICES A PHOTOGRAPHY BUSINESS NEEDS TO CHARGE, EVEN IF THEIR WORK SUCKS MULE BALLS, JUST TO STAY IN BUSINESS.
I’ll be totally honest. When I got married, I could have written what that bride wrote. I thought wedding photographers worked for 10 hours on the day of the wedding and then joined the strippers on the beach while I was in the office managing projects. I never thought about the taxes they’d need to pay, the costs, insurance, etc. etc. etc.
I also somehow thought that a wedding album might cost a photographer more or less as much as one of those old-school slip-your-4×6-albums made in China and sold at Walmart. Ok, no I didn’t think it only cost them $20… I thought theirs cost probably twice or three times as much. Yes, a whopping $60!!!
I think having some degree of understanding as to the baseline COST of something helps one understand WHAT they are paying for.
Again, let me reiterate that I believe the “education” efforts should simply be there to justify the FLOOR, not the actual price. This is America, we are capitalists we like success, we like successful people, we like to work with successful people and we don’t have a problem with small business making a PROFIT.
I also think that having the information out there that firmly establishes a FLOOR should be beneficial for the industry as it helps potential clients fear what they might get (or what they might NOT get) if they did indeed even consider the Craigslist special. I’ve had some clients casually ask how much the gear costs, and when they hear what the gear (including backups) I use costs their jaws usually drop. My jaw would have dropped too when I got married, especially if I was bombarded by Canon XTi $499 special ads around Black Friday.
And sure, one could say that clients who question the prices are “not my clients” … but that attitude may end up pushing away perfectly acceptable clients.
…but the choir likes to sing along! You make very good points although some may not agree. Once the photographer/creator falls back to the ” I need to educate you about how much I spend ” position he’s lost the high ground of selling value and is starting to sound both desperate and condecending ( an odd combo! )
Photographers and business people have to start understanding that not everybody is their client, that bride wants what we call in Guatemala the 3 B’s “Bueno Bonito y Barato” (good, nice and cheap) , and as you said she has a right to look for that, however that does not mean that I will charge less because of it.
Most of us start with the idea that we want the whole market to hire us, but in reality we don’t want the whole market, we want specific clients, be it the ones that pay more or even the ones that love our work and click with us, it is up to us to start looking for the clients that we want and stop bothering with the ones we don’t.
I’ve started to understand that we don’t need to educate our client, we do however have to be sure that our image and brand is saying what we want in order to get the clients that we want.
There will always be the cheap client and there will always be the cheap competition, stop stressing over something that you can’t change.
Javier’s mention of the Guatemalan turn of phrase reminded me of something I saw on a TV show years ago. One character drew a triangle on the wall with good, fast, and cheap written on the three sides. He then stated that work can be good and fast, which won’t be cheap, or cheap and fast, which won’t be good. Occasionally maybe good and cheap, but never ever all three.
Whether that’s true or not is beside the point. The issue of brides’ possibly expecting that….also beside the point. Directing time, effort and energy into altering things out of our control (like other people) is a waste, not to mention immensely frustrating. It seems similar to launching into an explanation all of your strengths and values to a person you’ve asked out on a date who turns you down. Move on!
While I am of the persuasion that it takes all levels of photographers, to envelop the needs of every bride’s budget, I also believe in the old adage that “you get what you pay for”. This is more apparent in photography than it is in most other things. This lady seems to be upset that she cannot get a photographer she wants, at a price she is willing to pay. My reply to this is simple. If you want a Porsche buy one, if its a Hyundai you can afford, get that. If you think either is “whack” on their pricing, feel free to express yourself to them and see if it will get them to lower their rates to a point that is “affordable” or “reasonable” to you.
All the best with your endeavors.
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