Alright folks, if you’ve been waiting for the drama here is your photographic equivalent of The Real Housewives of Wherever-the-Hell. Just kidding, If you haven’t followed along Yan posted about her troubles and frustrations about moving her business and getting bookings in the post “sick of it.” For better or worse that post went viral and my response to it went along for the ride. Through a series of awkward back-and-forth Yan and I finally connected and talked about all the hoopla. Please note, this isn’t the first time that Yan and I have spoken (that was last week, and I felt it best to talk things out in private before taking it public) and this isn’t the first podcast Yan has done on the subject. In an odd turn of events while Yan and I were speaking for the first time on Skype my pal Michael Howard messaged me to ask if I had scooped him or if he got to her first. So while she and I may have buried the hatchet first Michael got her committed and on the schedule first. Their interview talks a little more about Yan’s background and the impetus for posting in the first place – Check it here.
Our podcast rolls a little differently. This is more of a candid conversation between two people in very similar situations trying to figure out how to be happy, do something compelling and pay the bills at the same time. Of course, we talk about the drama, but we also talk about where we go from here – how you get business, how artistic integrity plays into business sensibility and what exactly makes a client want to hire you. I’m proud of this one, and for what it is worth I’m a huge fan of Yan.
The podcast comes in 2 versions. Check this out:
STANDARD VERSION
The standard version is oh-so-free to download and listen to. It runs about an hour. This is Yan and I discussing the drama, artistic integrity, and what the Hell I’m talking about when I say “branding” – Been wondering what I mean by that? This will clear some things up.
Feel free to right-click and save down the .mp3 file.
EXTENDED VERSION
We’re also offering an extended version of the podcast. This is the entire uncut conversation between me and Yan and it runs over 2 hours. Everything we couldn’t fit into the main show is here – swooning, drama, getting real, getting way too real, networking, and artistic integrity. Great, down-to-earth discussion.
The extended version includes the entire standard version as well as the pre-show and post-show. It runs over 2 hours, and comes as an .mp3 download for $3 US currency. Drop your loot and you’ll get an .mp3 link to download the show straight to your iBrain.
Let me know what you think about the podcast and make sure to spread the word on Twitter, Facebook and where ever else folks like you listen to stuff like this. Once again, many thanks to Yan, she’s one of the good guys, so to speak.
- trr
{ 4 comments… read them below or add one }
Todd,
Really enjoy listening to all of your podcasts. From the moment I found your site I’ve been a big fan. Plus you turned me on to Seth Godin’s work which I’m really enjoying. His whole concept of “world views” and how it applies to photography is fantastic.
Now with that being said I have to comment on this, your latest podcast. I understand where you are coming from with wanting to interview a photographer who has caused a little bit of a commotion in the “wedding industry” from her blog post “Sick of It”. But I have to say not really a fan of this podcast. Not that I’m not a fan of the way you conduct yourself during them, because honestly I love your no bullshit approach. It’s just really apparent to me how confused Yan is in regards to why people buy into the idea of photography. I don’t have a complete handle on it myself, although I am really starting to grasp the whole concept of “branding”, but it really pisses me off to see someone miss the mark so completely.
Like you said during the podcast she actually has some very decent work and there should be no reason for a client not to book her if she had all her ducks in a row. But I think this podcast is kind of reinforcing this idea of “wah wah my business is doing bad, let’s all complain about it”. Which like I said before really just annoys the crap out of me. Instead I feel like we should promoting and discussing positive ideas in order to boost our industry as a whole. That’s why I have enjoyed all your other podcasts so much.
This “comment” really doesn’t come from a place of jealousy either because I honestly do want all of us, as photographers, to succeed and prosper. I don’t look at Yan’s situation and say to myself “Damnit she is getting all this attention now just because of her complaining attitude”. What I do think is “Ok seriously who cares about this woman and the fact that her business could be better”. There are so many educational threads, posts, DVDs, blogs, books and online reading material available to all of us. If one would just use these things in an intelligent way and learn from them there should no reason to have to complain in a blog post like this.
Ok so I guess before I ramble on too much, (which I’m thinking I already did) how about we get back to discussing ideas and concepts that push us all in the right direction. No more complaining : )
Hey Ryan,
First, I’m glad that you’re digging at least the first few podcasts if not this one.
So I think it bears mentioning or perhaps restating what the point of this blog is. I’ve got a soft spot for the full-timer. I’m drawn to the struggle of those who NEED this to work because that’s the situation that I’ve found myself in. So while I may have had pretty strong opinions on Yan’s original post the intent of this podcast was not to rip her a new one (which I think is what a lot of people were expecting from me) but instead to try and find the positive way forward. This blog exists to find some answers.
Yes, I think Yan has good, interesting work. And yes, I agree that she doesn’t completely “get it” yet. So my intention in running this episode in the way that I did was to dispel some of the drama and talk like two people in the trenches about what might work and how we might proceed. While I my operate as a completely mouthy know-it-all 90% of the time my goal with the podcast is not just to prove myself right but to give some leeway to hear what other people think and rub my ideas up against theirs. I was actually very happy with the fact that we talked quite a bit about what compels a client to hire a photographer and how she might take her approach and help to mold it to better communicate her value to the client.
I agree that we should be talking about the ideas and concepts that will push us forward. That is, at the heart, what I try to do every day on this blog. I’ve also learned that sometimes you have to forget about the big ideas and the broad reach and sit down person-to-person and listen. In this case, that’s the approach I took. I think it is totally valid to understand where Yan was coming from and try to meet her halfway and craft a bridge between what she wants and believes and what I think will work. I’m a big believer in tough love. But the love has to be there first.
At any rate, I’m glad that you’re reading and listening. I think that the biggest takeaway from this whole issue is that polarizing issues, brands, and topics generate interest far better than the safe, middle-of-the-road ideas. As I said before, even if I didn’t agree with the content or approach of Yan’s post in theory, I think it is always better to do something than to nothing. My goal in all this is to help her do better. My goal would be to help tie the artistry to client-focused intent. I’m a firm believer that the impulse to create and the discipline to market that creation to paying customers are not inherently tied together. Just because you want to create doesn’t mean you have the skills to make people want it. I guess, that’s a big part of why I do what I do, helping people build the bridge between the two. Hopefully, with that in mind, you might listen again to this episode and see it not as an effort to enable the complaining, but an effort to understand and try to make the connection.
Like I said, I appreciate you listening and reading. I also appreciate everyone who is in the trenches making a go at this without a safety net. They are my people.
- trr
Hey Todd,
First of all, thanks for the shout-out
Second of all, I enjoyed the honesty and sincerity with this one.
I’m not exactly standing on solid ground as far as my own direction for where I want to take photography, so I don’t have too much more to say. But overall I really like this blog and the interviews have been great too. I’d be happy to do one with you anytime
-Tim
BTW, I come from the business mindset. I used to think “artists” where kind of weird and wishy washy and were kind of pointless. Although I’ve moved a little closer to the middle in my perspective, I still see no reason why anyone would go try to make a living yet not actually try to make a profit. It’s pointless….if you love photography so so so much that’s cool…but it won’t feed you or clothe you unless you also love running a business!
-Tim
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